Episode 6 Transcript: Julie Bach and Traveling as Treatment
Joelle: Welcome to Kicking Cancer's Ass, a podcast that refuses to play by Cancer's rules. I'm Joelle Kaufman, and I've spent over four decades in the cancer trenches. First supporting my mother through multiple diagnoses, then my sister, and finally facing my triple-negative breast cancer diagnosis. When cancer knocked on my door, I didn't just answer. I invited it in for a conversation about who would call the shots. Spoiler alert, it wasn't going to be cancer. Here's what I discovered: the prevailing narrative around cancer, reinforced by movies, TV shows, and hushed conversations, tells us a diagnosis equals a death sentence. That narrative is dead wrong. The five-year survival rate for localized breast cancer is over 95%. That's not a typo. Over 95%, yet when cancer enters our lives, fear. Overshadows facts, and we lose sight of our power.
This podcast exists to flip the script; we'll hear from survivors, medical innovators, wellness pioneers, and people like today's guests, Julie Bach, who transform how we live with and beyond cancer. laugh, we might cry, but most importantly, we'll share practical strategies that helped me and countless others crush cancer’s curve ball. The goal isn't to sugarcoat cancer. It sucks. Full stop. But what if we could experience profound joy, deeper connections, and even personal growth while kicking cancer's ass? I did, and I'm hoping you can too. Let's begin. This is your playbook for facing Cancer with confidence, community, and even a few curveballs. My guest, Julie Bach, welcome and thank you for being here.
Julie Bach: My pleasure.
Joelle: Thank
Julie Bach: a kick ass show. I love the,
Joelle: Yeah.
Julie Bach: Whole introduction.
Joelle: Well, thank you.
Julie Bach: You're welcome.
Joelle: You know, you told me a story when we first reconnected about losing both your parents to cancer when they were young.
They were all younger than 55, and you pivoted from your Harvard MBA career path to like travel experiences and extraordinary experiences for cancer patients. Could you walk us through that transition and how your personal lived experience shaped your vision for what cancer patients truly need?
Julie Bach: Well, that is such an opportunity, so thank you for that. You know, for me, what I saw was that life has a timeline. Right. So we're all not getting outta here alive. Some people's timelines are sooner than others'. And with my parents, what I saw was that I had this new focus, right? This whole Harvard MBA rah rah out there to save the world, to build companies, et cetera.
And you know, this little wake-up call of, hmm, is that where I wanna spend my time? Right, so it. It came down to identifying what mattered most to me in my life, and putting those values first, and then defining where do these other skills of business, for example, come in. And so for me, what I saw with my parents was.
We went on a lot of trips. I would not tell anybody on this call get married 'cause your dad is dying. Okay. But I did, and my marriage lasted a whole 10 years, but that's not what I would advise on doing. But hey, you know, it was this going-away party too.
Joelle: I think a lot of people accelerate things like marriage plans or even having a baby because a parent is facing a potentially terminal illness. I.
Julie Bach: Exactly. And so for us, you know, whether it was the wedding or going on certain trips, we just compacted so much of living and living together during this time and creating, you know, lasting memories. You know, we're talking, you know. 1980s. Okay. We were creating videos for each other and videos for my children at some point.
Right. But travel is something that we always enjoyed as a family before the diagnosis. Right. So it was really important to thread that through. And when I started the charity, I started it. Almost like a Make-A-Wish foundation, where I wanted to send people to resorts and travel and things like that.
And what I came to learn was. The travel, the resort industries, they weren't at that place of understanding cancer. And now 20 years later, they're finally in this place of, you know, really being able to embrace traveling with cancer, having a spa experience with cancer, focusing on joy and not defining the client necessarily by their cancer.
So I'll stop there for a moment.
Joelle: Well, I'm just curious. Us, you know, in the 20 years. If you could do a before or then and now, like 20 years ago when you started wanting to create or send people for these wonderful reprieves, how were they treated at the resorts or the destinations versus what you see today? How has this changed?
Julie Bach: This is the big ugly secret of hospitality and the spa industry. Most people were turned away. So people would go, let's say, fly. They'd ring the bell, they'd fly 17 hours or however long to the Maldives to be told they can't be touched. And then you have the therapist crying. You have the spa director walking the person.
Back to their villa. Everybody's crying. The husband or wife is pleading, could you please touch my husband or wife? And it was just a mess. And so it's honestly taken 20 years to for the industry to understand. Right. And because they were fear of liability, fear that doing this right would spread cancer.
And so. Now, I would say the awareness is there, but I never expected it to take 20 years. And it's still maybe at its best, 25% of spas are trained.
Joelle: So, as somebody who's faced cancer and you've worked with countless people, are there things we should tell? The therapist tells the spa. So, I mean, I've never been turned away even when I was in treatment, thankfully.
Julie Bach: Yeah.
Joelle: My integrated cancer center (https://osher.ucsf.edu/patient-care/clinical-specialties/integrative-cancer-care) includes massage and acupuncture, even, you kno,w psychotherapy as services and nutrition that are available. So, what should a patient say to educate? A therapist can give them guidance about, you know, this is okay, please don't do that.
Julie Bach: Yeah, so let me first address the first part for you. There was a disconnect between people, training therapists, and the education system. Evidence was demonstrating what was being done in hospitals. Right. And so that's a key piece that I have worked with Mayo Clinic, with doctors from MD Anderson, to help the industry and the training.
No. So the most important thing for a therapist, for a person to share with their therapist, is whether or not you've had lymph nodes removed. Or radiated. So, what does that mean? I need to understand if your lymphatic system might be a little sluggish or compromised, meaning at risk of lymphedema, or if somebody has lymphedema, because not all of the massage treatments, for example, most of them aren't built around knowing that answer.
So we have to make adjustments for that in how we massage. So that is the number one thing for us to understand. And thenthe second is to understand, are you still in treatment? We're not gonna do a deep tissue massage during cancer treatment, for example, because if somebody's in chemotherapy, chemotherapy is going throughout the entire body.
But we can still give a really firm massage, so we encourage the therapist to ask. Why do you want deep tissue? Are there areas that you want focused on? Because maybe there's another technique that I can use that's not full force my body pressure leaning into you. So being clear on what it is that you actually are looking for.
Are you holding stress in your shoulders? Do you have, you know, pain from neuropathy in your hands and your feet? So those types of things are important for a therapist, you know, to understand.
Joelle: I remember one during one of my infusions, there was a massage therapist moving through the infusion center she came over. politely said, you know, would you like me to do some massage? And I'm, you know, poor hooked up being infused. I love massage. And I said to her, well, yeah, but what can you do? And she says, I can do your feet. And oh my God, that was just a delightful 15 minutes of my day. Just a foot massage and a little pressure point work. It was relaxing and it was nowhere near other than the systemic, there's cancer everywhere. It was nowhere near where I had treatment happening other than relaxation.
It, it felt like such a kindness.
Julie Bach: Yeah, so usually you'll have your hands or your feet done, and let's say somebody has open wounds. They have blood clots or risk of blood clots or lymphedema, then we might do a scalp and shoulder massage in the infusion center instead. So we actually just did that in Africa where the doctors were saying, no, no, no.
So I had to pull in some of the medical researchers to say, and doctors to say, no, this is safe. We do this in the United States, we do this globally. Here's a protocol, you know, completely safe. And now there's a line. Out the door in Johannesburg and Namibia for people wanting services while they're getting their infusion centers.
So the United States is very far ahead of many areas and some countries in Europe are as well.
Joelle: I think that's amazing. I think about, you know, when you're fighting cancer, it. It feels like your body has turned against you and so much of it doesn't feel good, right? The, you just, you either just don't feel right or food doesn't taste quite right, or you're more fatigued than usual. Some people lose their hair.
There's just things that say, I just don't feel like me, to be able to experience. Caring touch to be able to lose yourself for a moment in the experience of caring, relaxing, touch. I mean, you talked about stress between my shoulders, that that's cancer agnostic for me. I've been carrying that around since I was, I don't know, 18. But the whole thing, it's so helpful, even if it's just a 10 minute reprieve feeling like your body isn't your own.
Julie Bach: Yeah. And some people don't want necessarily to be touched, you know, whether it's a facial or a massage. So that's where yoga comes in. That's where meditation, mindfulness, guided imagery, there's, there's a lot of integrative and complimentary practices that, you know, can really help somebody. And that's where me as a health coach, that's what I do with individuals is to figure out what's going on.
And what are some things that you can do, the control that you can take in order to, you know, own that journey a little bit more in the way that you are able to impact it?
Joelle: Absolutely. I mean, you know, this is the whole point of the podcast, right? What is the mindset? So tell us a little bit about how you help someone of make peace with this is happening explore. These various options. That you can expose them to some of which might have be physically available in their area, and some might be online or what have you.
But tell us a little bit and tell people if they're going through this at the beginning or they're supporting people, you know, what, what are the right. Questions, how do you even approach this? Because no one wants to feel like you're saying like, well, don't feel too bad. Don't worry about your cancer like that.
That's not what anyone wants to hear or say.
Julie Bach: Yeah, so I think it's important when we hear the words, you know, you have cancer, and then people start Googling statistics and we start looking at cure. No cure. In between those two options is also a path called living. And it depends where a person is. So for example, honestly, my best friend two days ago was diagnosed with cancer and she got her gene.
It's okay. She got thank you. She got her gene testing back yesterday. And they had found some suspicious activity in both breasts. And so we just talked about a few things yesterday, right? Number one is, you know, overload. So here is a person who's newly diagnosed, who's trying to suppress her emotion and just trying to power through it with, I'm gonna make decisions, not getting in touch with herself.
So that would be one strategy I might have with a person is, okay, well let's, let's look at what you know. Let's look at the information you need to know and what types of questions you can ask your doctor this Friday, for example. You know, be prepared to, to think about do you want one surgery or.
Is it possible? And are you willing to possibly go from maybe a lump back lumpectomy to treatment and then if you have to later on, do more surgeries? Right? So looking at what are your health values, for example, to help a person make their choices. That's gonna be very different from somebody else who can't relax, right?
And can't even look at the information with that person. I might work more on breathing.
Right, so that they're able to take in that kind of information. So it really depends on that person. A coach actually helps a health coach, listens to that person, helps them understand their options, helps them understand or uncover what matters most to them.
Again, what their values are in in health. Some people might fear going to a hospital.
Some people might fear doctors, right? So I'm going to meet that person in a completely different space as well. So it's more about what's going on with that individual, this, this client, or this best friend. Her daughter's getting married next month, right?
So, you know, the question that we formulated with the doctor is, do I have to do something now? Like right now? Before the wedding or do I have time?
Her doctor said, you have time. Okay, so what do we wanna do with this? You don't have to do something in the next four weeks, right? She can travel in the next four weeks to the wedding, for example.
So, not being afraid to ask and often. People are afraid to ask and assume I can't travel, or I can't do this, or I have to embark on treatment immediately. And they forget that they probably do have a little bit of time. Nothing's changed with her between yesterday and today, except she has more information on her body and has to make some decisions based on that information, and that's important in a way to help.
You know, kind of reduce that anxiety, provide a little perspective. So travel, go ahead, travel's one of those key ones.
Joelle: I agree. Travel is, when I was on a podcast recently with Dr. Laura Esserman (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/joelle-kaufman-breast-cancer-champion-and-author/id1765797864?i=1000699982793), said, you know, breast cancer is often not urgent because you just know about it. And so one of the things, I mean, I wrote a book for people exactly where your friend is, the newly diagnosed, but I think it's important what you're saying, which is slow it down. Slow it down. We're not in a crisis and a good medical team is gonna want as much data as they can before they embark on a plan. One of the things that surprised me in my journey, I don't know if this will, it depends on everybody's type of cancer, type of breast cancer, my triple negative, they recommend not doing surgery.
Rather first doing the chemotherapy of how aggressive it is and how responsive it is to chemotherapy. And over the last 30 years, they've seen better outcomes for my type of breast cancer, for actually doing surgery later. For other types of breast cancer. They don't see that result. They wanna do the surgery first. And so I think these are important questions to not make assumptions about, but to ask and to say, I have a wedding, my daughter's wedding, can we work around this? And you know, Julie, I think we've told the story, but my sister was diagnosed three months before her own wedding. And they couldn't wait three months to start treatment because of the aggressiveness of the tumor. so what her conversation was, how do we schedule the chemotherapy so that I'm between protocols with enough time to recover, cover for my wedding? And so the whole schedule was designed traveling for her wedding. Funny, that's her. The whole,
Julie Bach: She heard you.
Joelle: the entire, her entire treatment plan was organized around her destination wedding in Cabo, and ensuring that she would feel healthy strong and be able to enjoy her wedding.
And the wedding became. One of these mini milestones, something that you strive for that helps you get through the ups and downs of treatment. And interestingly, I don't know if you hear this from your clients, she found that post wedding when she had to do the next set of treatment, even though it was much less toxic, the next round, the next protocol, not having the wedding to look forward to. Made that psychologically a lot harder. So much so that they just started planning their honeymoon. So she had that to look forward to when she finished the treatment and, and what have you. So I think it's very to express I have a life that cancer has to fit into rather than I'm going to put my life on hold for cancer.
Julie Bach: Well, I think that's a very important point because a lot of the clients that I do coach, you know, some just collapse. Some ignore, like, you know, ignore cancer and just continue living or maybe just go off on, you know, completely different tangents of, of trying to eat better this, that, and the other.
But don't look at, okay, my body's telling me, you know, I do have cancer. And the third is what you've talked about, which has the most successful outcomes, is how do I integrate this? Into my daily life, right? Meaning that you're not defined by your cancer and you're still going to try to live the life that you were living before, maybe with some adjustments.
But you and I agree on this, it's owning. Your journey. And if you're passive, if you fall apart, that's where again, a coach can help a person look at the statistics, look at what matters to a person. You know, maybe, maybe somebody does have a cancer where they don't have a lot of time. Well, then it comes down to what matters most to you.
Right? And what, how can you touch upon joy? For example, and I know this is a big one for you, how can you touch upon joy? Every single day. Right. So it's really helping a person design, I know this sounds odd, but design their own journey to the best that they can without losing a sense of self.
Joelle: That makes a ton of sense. Now, curious, we talked about spas. What are the misconceptions that other parts of the travel industry either don't understand or exploit when it comes to people traveling with cancer and how do we overcome them?
Julie Bach: Yeah, so I built a whole course for travel advisors and we'll roll that out to people touched by cancer, of course. But I think the number one misconception is that a person can't travel with cancer, just blanket. And you know, cancer treatments are now personalized. And some of them aren't as intrusive or don't have as many side effects per se, as your grandma's cancer.
Right. So people don't have that understanding. The most important things for me to educate a travel advisor on to work with their guests so that those would be people here also on the call is, you know, why this trip? Why now? Right? When was the last time that you did travel? Right, so that you know, instead of flying all the way to Europe, for example, or all the way to Asia or something else, you know, do you need a shorter flight first?
Okay. Maybe before you could do this really long flight, but would it be helpful to break it up? It's important to understand what are those travel stressors. You know, for an individual whether it's delayed flights, you know, what is it that stresses you out? Because there's probably a solution there.
Traveling with medications is probably one of the top. Traveling with medications and medical devices, so understanding, for example, do not take your medicines out of the original container with the prescription. On them. That is like the number one thing. So, so understanding how do you travel? How do you travel if you're traveling out of the country or by car or if you need to refill.
So these are the types of things that travel agents aren't necessarily aware of how to address, especially when it comes to traveling with syringes, though they might for diabetics, but they may not. Okay. So it just really depends on that travel advisor. And again, knowing how to structure the day. So a client might have cancer fatigue, so cancer fatigue then means there's gonna be some times where, you know, you might just be tired.
So how are you gonna balance your activities on your trip? And, and we call it relax. Do relax. So really sorting out those activities you absolutely have to do. And those activities, you know, that would be nice, but if I don't get to, that's okay. Right? Those are the ones that you can say to yourself, it's okay, I already pre-identified.
I don't need to do those sorts of things right now, what time of day is good for an individual? Maybe you have more energy in the morning to do things than in the afternoon. So it's really understanding some of those side effects that an individual might have and how to build that routine, the activities, the travel itself around those common side effects.
Joelle: Yeah, it's interesting. It's almost like traveling with toddlers and you have to plan for nap time and downtime, or they're just gonna get overstimulated. It's just a different Now. There's a different of travelers. I. I find when I talk to people that have been through cancer that a common thing when they're done with treatment to plan a trip. And I remember we were on the integrated oncology webinar, I think through the Global Wellness Institute (https://globalwellnessinstitute.org/), people were talking about some of these. Almost outward bound like experiences for people after they've been through treatment when they're either no evidence of disease or PCR or whatever it is. I'd love if you'd share a little bit about what you are seeing as these opportunities to reclaim or redefine yourself
Julie Bach: Sure.
Joelle: going through this.
Julie Bach: Well, the hospitality industry has really moved into wellness and leisure travel. Okay. And transformational travel. So it's a really exciting time to be in this arena. With that said, you know, you can go to places. Like six senses if you have the budget. And they have always had like the hero's journey where you might do paragliding off the side of a cliff.
Okay. That's always been some things that people, you know, want to do. Cancer, no cancer, right? That bucket list item. And then there are experiences, for example, at Kamaya in Thailand, or euphoria in Greece and there's, there's other areas here in the us. Mival would be one. Where you know, you can process change.
So in Thailand it might be working with someone who is spiritual to look again, like, how do I wanna define my life? What matters most to me? Maybe it's about looking at the cancer journey and finding meaning. In it. It's the same thing in Greece. They have the Odyssey journey. It's, it's greased, right? So, you know, it's kind of like the oh, I can't think of Joe's last name.
Isn't that horrible? The hero's journey,
Joelle: Mm-hmm.
Julie Bach: Where it's about, you know, you, you're coming full circle now and looking at the same thing. What, what did it teach you? It might also be a different retreat on. Building relationships with yourself or building relationships or a closer relationship with your partner, for example.
So there's all kinds of, of themes out there. There's also grief. It could, it could be for care or it could be for somebody whose life is, you know, dramatically changed. And so it really depends on the individual, their sleep programs at resorts to help people learn how to sleep. Better, whether it's incorporating sleep hygiene, so turning off the lights, having white noise maybe having a ritual like we do for our children before a bath or Roma therapy or yoga.
So it's really endless, which is why I love the industry because it gives you an opportunity to travel. And travel with purpose for wellness and wellbeing, or you could just stay in a place that, you know, supports you with your needs for any dietary, for any leisure, anything like that. So it really meets the person again, where they are.
But really wellness, wellbeing, transformational travel is exciting opportunity during cancer and after cancer.
Joelle: so of all the things UCSF offered to us in this fabulous menu of integrated integrative oncology, you know, a travel agent wasn't on the list. How does, how did somebody find. A advisor or website, like where do you look to even explore
Julie Bach: Well, there, there isn't a list. There isn't a list yet. I mean, we've trained, we've, I know, well, we've trained about a hundred, well, we've trained about 150 people through some of our affiliates. And so the directory, I wasn't gonna launch until I had a good 200 was my. Earmark on that and then we'll be able to, to have those therapists.
So right now, you, cancer wellness travel dot com (https://cancerwellnesstravel.com/) is is one that, I don't have the therapist listed, but I do have 250 properties that we've curated globally and you can just contact me and I'll give you some of the travel advisors so that you can access them directly. That would be my first step.
Joelle: The same,
Julie Bach: There will be a URL in the future that we purchase, which is just travel with cancer that will point over there.
Joelle: Okay. But we can put that in the show notes as
Julie Bach: Yep. Cancer wellness travel.com.
Joelle: I think it's
Julie Bach: I.
Joelle: So, you know, what has been the resistance you've encountered and the unexpected champions that you've discovered this journey?
Julie Bach: Resistance within patients or resistance within hospitality
Joelle: the hospitality industry.
Julie Bach: Legal. Legal being afraid that a person will say, I did X, Y, Z at the resort and it spread my cancer. That's why they wouldn't do massage or things like that. They were just really I think afraid on that. That was my biggest in general. I.
Resistance that I didn't plan for. And again, 20 years later, I'm still having to educate with, you know, leading medical researchers and liability now covers spa therapists and things like that. So I, I would say that, that I didn't, I didn't expect antiquated thinking. And the role of legal. But now that's kind of been kaboshed and most of the resorts know that this is something that they need to do given the statistics of cancer.
I think what surprised me and what I am trying to change the narrative now on is that now all of a sudden people are calling everything, cancer, massage, cancer this, cancer that, and which is everything I tried not to do, but I'm not the only voice anymore. So. You know, if there is a treatment on the menu that you want and you see a cancer treatment for those spas that only do cancer treatments, which is not how I train ask them if they can adjust the treatment that you want.
You don't have to have the cancer massage a good. Therapist that's well-trained, should know how to adapt for your special needs, your unique needs, your body. Maybe you rolled an ankle playing pickleball, right? So that's an additional need that they have to take into consideration. Maybe you're pregnant and you're going through chemotherapy, so you got a double whammy in there, right?
So a good therapist should know how to adapt for you.
Joelle: So the other thing that you made me think about, of these resorts and spas, they're big on how they're gonna feed you. And all this healthy eating, I don't know how many people realize that there are certain supplements and certain foods that actually interact negatively with chemotherapy. The biggest surprise, and luckily it's not a food I love was. out when you're going through chemotherapy. At least my type, because of the very high level of vitamin C. So it seems that if you are in treatment and you're going to a resort that has some sort of a nutrition dietary, it's important to let them know you're in treatment, but also find out their menu and run that by your oncologist to make sure there's nothing they see. That could with the efficacy of your treatment.
Julie Bach: Yeah, so some of the things we talk to, the travel advisors and travel advisors are used to dietary restrictions or adaptations, right? So we, educate them again that they need to find out from the client from their dietician or from their oncologist, for example. Is there anything? And sometimes if you're going to a foreign country, it's good to have pictures of those fruits, right, or vegetables or whatever that you cannot have.
And the chefs are completely fine and they're happy to have that and cater to any dietary unique needs.
Joelle: Well, I think it's really important the way you just positioned that because there's lots of people that have unique dietary needs that have nothing to do with cancer,
Julie Bach: Correct,
Joelle: so you know, you simply have to say, these are foods or. Supplements or what have you that I need to avoid. You don't actually owe them the reason why
Julie Bach: correct.
Joelle: You can just say, these are out for me,
Julie Bach: Yes.
Joelle: which I think is very powerful.
Julie Bach: And it's the same thing if you think about a travel advisor, a DA bathrooms ground floor, right? So, so it's no different. They just needed to understand what are the things that I need to know about? For individuals that have cancer. No different from somebody that has a walking disability, right? So, so, or diabetes or things like this.
These are what are the unique needs that I need to make sure that I let the resort, let the spa let other people, the airlines know about.
Joelle: Well, and it's interesting 'cause for many people, cancer's an invisible disability. It's a temporary, and it's invisible. So you do have to tell people. Do you find that the advisors and the destinations are able to honor confidentiality
Julie Bach: Yes.
Joelle: Okay.
Julie Bach: Yes they do. And, and it's, IM, it's important if, if that's a high priority for you to, to make sure that is imparted
Joelle: great. Great. So
Julie Bach: I.
Joelle: there a story about a particular traveler or experience that you helped that it just crystallized for you how impactful and how important this work is? And I'd love to hear what happened and how it impacted your approach.
Julie Bach: Ooh, that's a whammy. You know, I, I think, I think there's a lot of, of unique experiences. I don't think that there's honestly one that sticks out more than another. I think the, the. The thing that sticks out most for me is the freedom with travel advisors, the freedom to be able to plan for somebody, the freedom and liberation for an individual to feel that they can be empowered to plan a trip that is important.
To me. Right. And so even with a A RP, just in general, they have done studies on travel and what they found is that there are benefits for during the pre-planning stage, during the traveling stage, and even, you know, wellness, wellbeing, emotional benefits afterwards. So for me, it's just helping people to focus on.
Living and you know, being, being able to live as normal a life or focus on that as possible.
Joelle: And you know, I traveled a bunch
Julie Bach: Mm-hmm.
Joelle: and after my experience obviously my sister traveled 'cause she got married in the middle of it. My mom traveled definitely with the third round when it was bladder cancer. She was out here for bar mitzvahs and the travel gave us things to look forward to and planning.
It felt normal.
Joelle: traveling felt joyous. And then the memories are a happiness trip wire, a booster along the way. When things aren't as exciting or as I mean, I like to, I like to end one trip with planning. When's my next one personally?
Julie Bach: Exactly. And if we look at any of the studies from Stanford on bucket list travel is in the top five, I think it's number three.
Julie Bach: Is, it's relevant. Everybody loves to travel. Exactly. It's escape from the role of being the sick person.
Julie Bach: I'm in a new environment, so it, my day-to-day routine can be shifted.
Julie Bach: So it's, it has numerous benefits on many levels that are documented.
Joelle: That's fantastic. All right, let's do some quick rapid fire. The part point of the rapid fire, Julie, is short, quick answers. Whatever comes to your mind. There are no wrong ones. I have
Julie Bach: Okay.
Joelle: fires. Are you ready?
Julie Bach: Yep.
Joelle: Okay. What is one essential item every cancer patient should pack when traveling?
Julie Bach: SPF,
Joelle: That's, I think everyone should pack.
SPF.
Julie Bach: well, people going through cancer treatment are more, their skin is more sensitive to the sun, so you have to mm-hmm.
Joelle: Alright. SPF and a good hat. What is the most underrated destination for someone on a cancer journey?
Julie Bach: Underrated destination on
Joelle: Where do people not think of that you think is
Julie Bach: Mexico.
Joelle: All right. If you could change one thing about how the travel industry approaches health challenges overnight, what would it be?
Julie Bach: Normalize it.
Joelle: Love it. What simple gesture from a hotel or spa staff makes the biggest difference to someone facing cancer?
Julie Bach: Asking them what would be most important for them to make this trip? A memorable experience
Joelle: All right, this sentence. Travel during cancer treatment is not about escaping your reality. It's about.
Julie Bach: living.
Joelle: Amen. It is about living. So Julie, it has been awesome. I think what you're doing and what you are making available. possible for millions of people, because it's not just the patients that travel, but it's their, their partners, their families, their friends, whoever is going on this experience with them.
I had travel with girlfriends, I had travel with my partner, I had travel with the kids. All of these were part of making the journey A year of, of happiness and joy a year of connection and love and the fact that you're making it possible. Lemme ask another question just came to my mind. For
Julie Bach: Sure.
Joelle: for people for whom, you know, cancer's a financial strain, how do you suggest they think about travel?
'cause that could feel like another financial strain.
Julie Bach: Well there are staycations and you can also have a car. There are. Epic experience. For example, they're a nonprofit and a counterpoint would be first descents, where hospitals pay, charities pay and underwrite for scholarships for people to go out to outdoor activities or overnights or week long vacations.
So this is the role of charities and there are some that will underwrite vacations.
Joelle: And I think, you know, people forget that we have in the United States a tremendous park system and camping tends to be low cost. And you can car camp, so have the things you need if that's your thing. And one of the people I wanna have as a guest on a future podcast, she's profiled in the book and she decided following her diagnosis. That she was going to take all her three kids to all 50 states with whatever time she has left. And the way they do it to be budget conscious is they look for what destinations are on sale. And they don't care where they go. They just go someplace they haven't been before make a. Low cost trip out of seeing the sites, seeing what's there, and it's, I think she's up to, when I interviewed her, she was up to 28 states, it had been three years.
So you know, she was finding this last minute what's available, travel to be also a cost-effective approach. But it sounds like in terms of these nonprofits that are helping support. People's ability to have experiences. It's another thing to ask your healthcare team and your, often there's a medical social worker who's part of this and helping deal with the finances, but I want people to understand they shouldn't be embarrassed or feel selfish saying, is there anything that could help me do a trip? Because as you said, there's so much medical evidence that travel planning, doing and remembering. Is advantageous better outcomes for your cancer treatment. so it's not trivial or petty selfish. It's actually good for your health and it's worth asking the questions. I,
Julie Bach: Beautiful. Great summary.
Joelle: excellent, Julie, thank you very much. And for everyone else, if you have questions about traveling with cancer or about all these fabulous. Therapists or resorts that have been trained, cancer wellness travel.com will have some answers and look for the certified directory coming soon, as soon as more places are certified.
Julie Bach: Sounds great.